Was Cunliffe forced to resign?

RAW DATA: TVNZ/Q+A transcript: Rachel Smalley interviews Grant Robertson. 

Watch the full interviw here.

SUSAN WOOD         Gone for now.  Labour Leader David Cunliffe will step aside on Tuesday, but he's already planning his comeback.  A week after the worst Labour defeat in nearly a 100 years, Cunliffe has finally made the decision his critics say he should have made a week earlier.  Once again he'll go through a leadership contest, as will Grant Robertson, who's with Rachel Smalley.

RACHEL SMALLEY       Thank you Susan.  Grant Robertson welcome along to the programme this morning.  Did David Cunliffe, was he forced to resign, did caucus force him to resign?

GRANT ROBERTSON        Oh look you'd have to ask him that question, but I don’t think that’s what he said yesterday.

RACHEL       But you're part of caucus.

GRANT        Yeah, no look I mean the caucus had a discussion last Tuesday about the election result.

RACHEL       And what did they talk about there?

GRANT        Well we have a lot of rules in our caucus about keeping those discussions confidential, but we had a robust discussion about the election result.  We polled 24% in the election.  No one in the caucus or the wider party is happy about that.

RACHEL       And he clearly didn’t want to resign.

GRANT        Well he did resign yesterday.

RACHEL       He didn’t want to at caucus, he's being forced is what I'm trying to get to the point here.

GRANT        Look he's taken his own decision, he's the one who's now triggered this process, what I want to focus on is how we rebuild the Labour Party, revitalise it and reconnect with New Zealanders.

RACHEL       Would it have been the purpose of caucus to resign and not then contest the leadership again.

GRANT        Look individual caucus members will have their own view on that.  The reality is he has triggered this process, the Labour Party has a process now to work through and we will go to the members and we will talk about the future of the party.

RACHEL       Is it your preference?  Would it have been your preference not for him to stand again?

GRANT        I think New Zealanders have probably had their fill of politics for now and I know that the members of the party who worked really hard during the election campaign are tired, but I couldn’t stand by and see the party poll 24% and not do something now that David has triggered the contest.  That’s why I put my name forward.

RACHEL       Sure, but would it have been the preference?  You say New Zealanders have had their fill.

GRANT        For now.

RACHEL       Absolutely.  So what's your personal view?

GRANT        Look, I support the process that the Labour Party has to select the Leader.  I think it's important that the members of the party have a say, and David has now triggered this contest and that’s what we will do.

RACHEL       How much support does he have in caucus, and how much support do you have?

GRANT        Oh I'm confident of good support in the caucus.  I had that last time when I ran, and I believe …

RACHEL       Do you believe you have support?

GRANT        Oh look individual caucus members will make up their mind over time.

RACHEL       Okay.  If you win would you want Cunliffe to remain in your caucus?

GRANT        That’s completely up to him, I think David is a person with real talent and who's got a contribution to make in politics, but he will have to make his decision about that.

RACHEL       But you are extremely polarising and divisive as a team player.

GRANT        Look I think I'm a person who can unify the Labour Party.  I believe that as a party we need to do that for the sake of New Zealand.  There needs to be a strong Labour Party, and I think that can only happen when we are unified.

RACHEL       Who would you choose as your Deputy?

GRANT        Oh, I haven't even given any real thought to that.

RACHEL       I bet you have.

GRANT        No, I haven't, because the choice of the Deputy is actually the choice of caucus.  What's important here is that we look at the party as a whole.  This is not just about who the leader is.  It's about what we talk to New Zealanders about, how we talk about those issues, and having a team of leaders within the caucus.  So those issues will come up in time.

RACHEL       Okay we've got Ardern I would say, we've got Davis, we've got Nash, we've got Shearer, they would be the four I would think who could be your Deputy.

GRANT        Well there's a range of possible people who could be the Deputy…

RACHEL       Well where is the Deputy likely to come from within those four do you think?

GRANT        Those are issues that we'll deal with in time.  The focus at the moment has to be about making sure that Labour has a plan to reconnect with New Zealanders.  That will involve the whole caucus coming together and being leaders in the community.

RACHEL       One criticism would be that if you win the leadership and you are a Central Wellington MP and you chose Jacinda Ardern and she's the Central Auckland MP, I think the Sunday Star Times called you the Beltway Base.  I mean that is an issue isn't it?

GRANT        Jacinda Ardern is like a lot of caucus members, she comes from Morrinsville, I come from Dunedin.  We have a variety of backgrounds in our caucus.  But I tell you what real Rachel is somebody coming up to me in an electorate like Wellington Central, a woman who came up to me in the campaign and said I'm a minimum wage worker, a home care worker, I've got three children, I'm trying to bring them up well.  I owe it to her, the Labour Party owes it to her to be an advocate for her.  She lives in my electorate but she could live in any electorate in New Zealand.

RACHEL       Do you think it will be a two horse race, just you versus Cunliffe?

GRANT        Look any member of the caucus is welcome to put their name in, that’s the nature of these contests.

RACHEL       But are they likely to?

GRANT        They may well.  That’s something we'll discover over time.  I'm putting myself forward, because I believe we do need a new generation of leadership.  We do need to reconnect to New Zealanders, and I think I can do that.

RACHEL       Caucus wants you that’s clear.  Caucus does want you ahead of David Cunliffe.  The party may not though.  So what does that do to Labour?

GRANT        We have to unify Labour, and we have to unify around the ideas that bring us to the Labour Party in the first place, which is about putting people first, it's about giving people a fair go.  I think the caucus, the party and the affiliated unions can unify around ideas that have always stood the Labour Party well.

RACHEL       You say that, but unification is not Labour's mastermind topic relay is it?  And it's not something that this party does well.  So you can say that that’s what you plan to do and that will unify the party, but …

GRANT        Well we have to do it.  There is not option for the Labour Party.  I think the ideas and values of the party around giving people a fair go and actually being relevant to the future of New Zealanders, and that they feel that, the Labour Party has those values.  We have the history of being able to do that, and we can do it again.

RACHEL       What can you offer that David Cunliffe can't.

GRANT        Look I think what we need to be is relevant, clear and consistent with New Zealanders about the Labour Party's values.

RACHEL       What about … because certainly everybody I think that we speak to about David Cunliffe say people don’t like him, that’s why they didn’t vote.  A likeability issue.

GRANT        Well I hope I'm a likeable person, and I think that I've got the ability to communicate our message in a way that is relevant.  Look we have to have a review.  We need to look at why we lost, and we need to listen to New Zealanders.  One of the things that’s happened now two elections in a row, is that we've ended up in the 20s.  At 24% things have to change.

RACHEL       Okay, those who supported Shane Jones in the last contest, in particular I'm talking about the unions here, who are they going to support this time?

GRANT        Well I'd like them to support me.

RACHEL       Why should they support you?

GRANT        Because I think I am the person who can bring the party together, who can be a new generation leader, who can make Labour relevant.  But we'll only do that if we listen to a broad spectrum of New Zealanders.  We've lost around half a million voters.  We need to bring those voters back.  We'll start doing that by listening to them and then taking our values and connecting them to their lives.

RACHEL       Just quickly.  How will the leadership contest be funded.  How will the party fund that?

GRANT        Oh well look that’s an issue that the party will deal with, but this is the  price of democracy.  I support the process of electing the leader.  I support the fact that members have a say, and I'm sure the party will find the resources for that.

RACHEL       Alright, Grant Robertson, thank you.